Wednesday, May 25, 2011
Sunday, May 22, 2011
Tuesday, May 3, 2011
Where does the concept of right and wrong come from, for Atheists
I was asked a few questions by a friend.
This is my answer:
Where does the concept of Evil come from for atheists?
Well I think that the concepts of Evil/right/wrong etc are innate human things. I don’t thing that any right minded person Theistic or Atheistic needs any “lawgiver” to neither tell them right nor wrong. My Moral compass is based on being a good human being.
If you look at the ten commandments which are Gods basic laws, I challenge any Theist to tell me they need god to decree these laws in order follow the ones that are actually pertinent to daily life and acutally make you good people.
1: you shall have no other god before me
2: you shall not make for yourself a carven image and bow down before it, for I am a jealous god
3: You shall not take the lords name in vain
4:Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy
5: honour your father and mother
6: You shall not murder
7: You shall not commit adultery
8: You shall not steal
9: You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
10: you shall not covet anything that is your neighbours
so of those, numbers the first four are not moral codes to live by.
The final six:
I honour and love my father and mother
I have not and will not murder
I shall not commit adultery. I cheated on my ex-girlfriend and have paid the price for it, I shall not do it again. It was not my atheism that caused my actions. Nor my lack of a god, it was however a product of bad communication and unaddressed flaws in our relationship.
I shall not steal. I did as a kid, and I was religious then.
I shall never bear false witness against my neighbor.
The last one, well that one is very difficult isn’t it. But I don’t think anyone on the planet is innocent of this one.
These are not things you need a god to tell you. These actions and ethics are innate.
Where does right and wrong and moral law originate and who do you think should decide where the line is drawn?
As mentioned before I think that moral law originates within us and not from a deity.
But who should decide where the line is drawn. Well that is far more difficult a question.
The line is drawn by humans and always has done. Whether we have had the church as our lawmakers before or not, it is still fallible people who have decided what is right and what is wrong. I do think that when god (through the church and biblical standards) was making the decision there was a lot more evil done in Gods name and the mass evil these days is still done in gods name.
I mean all gods not just the Christian one.
Anyone can grab Stalin as an evil atheist, but the very vast majority of evil men in history have been religious and have done evil in the name of their god. So is this the biblical standard you are referring to?
I believe it is. The standards of the bible are horrific, the number of god endorsed genocides are well within the standards of modern day genocides. I do not want the biblical standards to be the laws within which we live.
I don’t want homosexuals being killed
I don’t want tattooed people killed (both of which are suggested within the bible in consecutive passages.
I don’t want woman who expose their hair harmed
These examples go on and on and on.
Your question goes to the bible too. Who decides where the line is drawn with the bible?
The bible has so much evil in it that are put before Christians as laws to live by. Who decides what to follow? Surely if it’s the word of God you have to follow it all? But that is not the case, not even a little, I would hazard that you as a “good Christian” follow as much of bible law as I do, and most likely you avoid like the plague the vast majority of its laws.
I certainly 100% don’t think that Christians are as mean and cruel as certain parts of the bible.
Again, who decides what to follow? The Vatican, with their incredible history of evil and insanity? They are the perhaps the most insidious institution in history and they are the highest representatives of Christianity.
I don’t think its them who should decided the moral rules of the world.
In fact just like an atheist who’s moral compass decides how he/she lives, so you as a Christian decide how you will live. You don’t need the bible, or god, or your religious leader to tell you how to live. You as a good person know to treat people right, to not kill etc
I believe theists along with their atheist brethren are as good as each other, but atheists don’t have examples of evil put before them as if they are examples of a high moral standard.
Most people with even an elementary knowledge of Christ will admit that killing is inconsistent with his teachings. And yet here today we have thousands and thousands of people killed in his name, the same goes for Mohammed, and the vast majority of his followers abhor killing as much as Christians do.
So how does it happen that people are killed in the name of both these great and holy men? Its because of humans tainted by religion, evil people put in position of power supposedly with “gods” blessings. Therefore when they tell others to kill in the name of Allah and of Jesus… they do.
A quote that means so much to me is this:
“Evil men do evil, good men do good. But for a good man to do something evil, you need religion.”
This is true, I imagine the pious and religious men who tortured and killed during the crusades and the inquisition, were good men. I am sure they did not enjoy their work, for the most part.
I am sure that the men who burned witches were the same
The men who christened then smashed newborn baby’ skulls in, in south America. They were good people.
ALL of these people were good people and without religion would not have done these things.
So you asked who decides where the line is drawn. We do, ordinary people do. We are fallible and will make errors and we will make bad decisions. People will be harmed and there will be evil and suffering in the world. But it wouldn’t be any better if it was the church making these decisions, but it could certainly be worse.
I became an atheist in 2005, I was with a friend and we were discussing religion, I said to him that I cannot believe in that a god would send the vast majority of the world to hell and suffering. Because that is what Christianity believes. Can you? Can you believe in a god that would send all the Buddhists, the Muslims, the atheists, the homosexuals, the people who are living in the jungles of the amazon, the Khoi-san who are worshipping the sun, the vast hordes of human beings who were in existence before Christ and Judaism. I cannot believe in such cruelty.
This is my answer:
Where does the concept of Evil come from for atheists?
Well I think that the concepts of Evil/right/wrong etc are innate human things. I don’t thing that any right minded person Theistic or Atheistic needs any “lawgiver” to neither tell them right nor wrong. My Moral compass is based on being a good human being.
If you look at the ten commandments which are Gods basic laws, I challenge any Theist to tell me they need god to decree these laws in order follow the ones that are actually pertinent to daily life and acutally make you good people.
1: you shall have no other god before me
2: you shall not make for yourself a carven image and bow down before it, for I am a jealous god
3: You shall not take the lords name in vain
4:Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy
5: honour your father and mother
6: You shall not murder
7: You shall not commit adultery
8: You shall not steal
9: You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
10: you shall not covet anything that is your neighbours
so of those, numbers the first four are not moral codes to live by.
The final six:
I honour and love my father and mother
I have not and will not murder
I shall not commit adultery. I cheated on my ex-girlfriend and have paid the price for it, I shall not do it again. It was not my atheism that caused my actions. Nor my lack of a god, it was however a product of bad communication and unaddressed flaws in our relationship.
I shall not steal. I did as a kid, and I was religious then.
I shall never bear false witness against my neighbor.
The last one, well that one is very difficult isn’t it. But I don’t think anyone on the planet is innocent of this one.
These are not things you need a god to tell you. These actions and ethics are innate.
Where does right and wrong and moral law originate and who do you think should decide where the line is drawn?
As mentioned before I think that moral law originates within us and not from a deity.
But who should decide where the line is drawn. Well that is far more difficult a question.
The line is drawn by humans and always has done. Whether we have had the church as our lawmakers before or not, it is still fallible people who have decided what is right and what is wrong. I do think that when god (through the church and biblical standards) was making the decision there was a lot more evil done in Gods name and the mass evil these days is still done in gods name.
I mean all gods not just the Christian one.
Anyone can grab Stalin as an evil atheist, but the very vast majority of evil men in history have been religious and have done evil in the name of their god. So is this the biblical standard you are referring to?
I believe it is. The standards of the bible are horrific, the number of god endorsed genocides are well within the standards of modern day genocides. I do not want the biblical standards to be the laws within which we live.
I don’t want homosexuals being killed
I don’t want tattooed people killed (both of which are suggested within the bible in consecutive passages.
I don’t want woman who expose their hair harmed
These examples go on and on and on.
Your question goes to the bible too. Who decides where the line is drawn with the bible?
The bible has so much evil in it that are put before Christians as laws to live by. Who decides what to follow? Surely if it’s the word of God you have to follow it all? But that is not the case, not even a little, I would hazard that you as a “good Christian” follow as much of bible law as I do, and most likely you avoid like the plague the vast majority of its laws.
I certainly 100% don’t think that Christians are as mean and cruel as certain parts of the bible.
Again, who decides what to follow? The Vatican, with their incredible history of evil and insanity? They are the perhaps the most insidious institution in history and they are the highest representatives of Christianity.
I don’t think its them who should decided the moral rules of the world.
In fact just like an atheist who’s moral compass decides how he/she lives, so you as a Christian decide how you will live. You don’t need the bible, or god, or your religious leader to tell you how to live. You as a good person know to treat people right, to not kill etc
I believe theists along with their atheist brethren are as good as each other, but atheists don’t have examples of evil put before them as if they are examples of a high moral standard.
Most people with even an elementary knowledge of Christ will admit that killing is inconsistent with his teachings. And yet here today we have thousands and thousands of people killed in his name, the same goes for Mohammed, and the vast majority of his followers abhor killing as much as Christians do.
So how does it happen that people are killed in the name of both these great and holy men? Its because of humans tainted by religion, evil people put in position of power supposedly with “gods” blessings. Therefore when they tell others to kill in the name of Allah and of Jesus… they do.
A quote that means so much to me is this:
“Evil men do evil, good men do good. But for a good man to do something evil, you need religion.”
This is true, I imagine the pious and religious men who tortured and killed during the crusades and the inquisition, were good men. I am sure they did not enjoy their work, for the most part.
I am sure that the men who burned witches were the same
The men who christened then smashed newborn baby’ skulls in, in south America. They were good people.
ALL of these people were good people and without religion would not have done these things.
So you asked who decides where the line is drawn. We do, ordinary people do. We are fallible and will make errors and we will make bad decisions. People will be harmed and there will be evil and suffering in the world. But it wouldn’t be any better if it was the church making these decisions, but it could certainly be worse.
I became an atheist in 2005, I was with a friend and we were discussing religion, I said to him that I cannot believe in that a god would send the vast majority of the world to hell and suffering. Because that is what Christianity believes. Can you? Can you believe in a god that would send all the Buddhists, the Muslims, the atheists, the homosexuals, the people who are living in the jungles of the amazon, the Khoi-san who are worshipping the sun, the vast hordes of human beings who were in existence before Christ and Judaism. I cannot believe in such cruelty.
Tuesday, April 12, 2011
Monday, January 31, 2011
Piracy
I pirate...
I do, I pirate lots and lots of music.
I do it and I believe that not only am I helping these artist but I am helping "educate" my friends.
The way I see it is this:
I get music from the internet, from various sites and I dont pay for it.
I also get music from Music stores, which I obviously pay for. The discs I buy are inevitably, old favourite bands as well as new little bands who really need all the help they can get.
So I have music. some of it paid for some of it not.
Then what do I do with it?
I give it away, I give it to friends, and other people I respect in order for them to learn a little bit about what I like .. and LOVE.
Then they give what they love to their friends etc etc
Where do artists make their money. I mean famous ones that actually make a decent living from music, the ones who put their music out there. They make it from concerts, not from CD sales.
I alone have created a passion for The National with at least 50 of my friends, of which I would say ten have bought an album (I have bought all of them) and about 15 have gone to see them live, excluding myself.
This is the modern advertising, this is the future.
Word of mouth is the most powerful tool for promotion, what I do... is even better than that.
Sure, some people disagree, the law for one. But I love music so much and I think what I do is a good thing.
Brr
I do, I pirate lots and lots of music.
I do it and I believe that not only am I helping these artist but I am helping "educate" my friends.
The way I see it is this:
I get music from the internet, from various sites and I dont pay for it.
I also get music from Music stores, which I obviously pay for. The discs I buy are inevitably, old favourite bands as well as new little bands who really need all the help they can get.
So I have music. some of it paid for some of it not.
Then what do I do with it?
I give it away, I give it to friends, and other people I respect in order for them to learn a little bit about what I like .. and LOVE.
Then they give what they love to their friends etc etc
Where do artists make their money. I mean famous ones that actually make a decent living from music, the ones who put their music out there. They make it from concerts, not from CD sales.
I alone have created a passion for The National with at least 50 of my friends, of which I would say ten have bought an album (I have bought all of them) and about 15 have gone to see them live, excluding myself.
This is the modern advertising, this is the future.
Word of mouth is the most powerful tool for promotion, what I do... is even better than that.
Sure, some people disagree, the law for one. But I love music so much and I think what I do is a good thing.
Brr
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